LB - Episode 26 - Jordon Interview by Linux Basement

There are so many generalizations and unsubstatiated claims being made in that "Anti-Java" article that you might as well be reading a comic book.  Computer Science students and professionals use Java as a tool to implement fundamental computer science concepts in order to eventually be able to contribute as software engineers in business.  Java can be used by a computer science program to teach fundamentals of computer science concepts without worrying about the semantics of the language.  The same can be done in C++ or Python or C#.  However, the article does a poor job of separating concerns.  What exactly is Java?  Java is just a language, like C++.  Nothing more, nothing less.  On the other hand you have the Java Software Development Kit or SDK build on a foundation of solid, proven computer science concepts intended for software engineers.  The Java SDK provides the same services as Boost or the Standard Template Library does for C++.  Therefore concepts such as object oriented programming, inheritance, encapsulation and so forth can be effectively taught with Java, C# or C++ by focusing on the basics of the language as a tool.  Thus, the design of a language should not get in the way of the concepts being taught.  For example, while it's important to understand the concept of pointers within the context of C/C++, it's a language specific.  As a professor, you may emphasize Java or Python so that the student can better focus on the concepts being taught rather than the semantics of the tool being used.  Likewise, software engineers use the Java SDK libraries or C++ STL as an extra layer of abstraction so that fundamental computer science concerns do not take precedence over solving real world problems.  Is it really Java make programmers unemployable or is it the programmer's willingness to learn new languages and skills?  Is it Java contributing to declining computer science enrollment or the values of the American educational system?  Let's make sure we're addressing the real problems rather than looking for a scapegoat to make ourselves feel better.  If you're going to ignore Java because of it's technical merits (or lack thereof) fine.  That's perfectly acceptable.  Java does not make a perfect language or platform.  If you're going to ignore Java because you read an opinion piece and took it at face value without thinking for yourself, I feel sorry for you.

Hmm, last time I checked, I said that the article was a good read, and addressed some issues that I've talked about in the past. I never said this article was the word of god.

While I agree with you that Java can be used as a tool to teach Computer Science, I don't think it is the best tool for the job, and I certainly don't think it should be a required language for Computer Scicence majors. When you say that Java is nothing less or nothing more then a language such as C++, you are not being entirely truthful. Java is a very hard language to learn, and perhaps not the best choice to throw someone into for the fundamentals of programing. My personal choice would be python, as I've stated in the past.

I indicated in podcast that I did not like the title of the article, and certainly it is media flair. Of course Java is not to blaim for graduated computer science majors not being employable. I was not looking for a scapegoat, but merely pointing out a compelling argument, one of which you do not hear often. I would also point out, that I've talked about Java in the past and even made a call out to open source developers that use Java so that I could interview one for the show.

This article was not put up here so that you would go out and petition your nearest college to shut down the java production and scream to the heavens, but rather, a thought provoking article that I found that was slightly obscure. I never said I would ignore Java, nor have I in the past. I don't read anything at face value and I always think for myself. Apparently you have never listened to my show before.

If you are going to ignore these facts, and get worked over a 30 second mention of a passing article in my podcast, then friend, I feel sorry for you.

Thanks for the feedback, but try not to take it so personal next time.

Sincerely,

Chad

Dear Mr. Chad W.,I apologize for offending you.  My words were too harsh.  Obviously I feel very strongly against the article.  I did not feel it was a fair and balanced discussion of the issues surrounding Java and indeed of computer science in general.  In fact, I believe it does a great disservice to a Linux user, new to programming and attempting to get a feel for the opportunities various languages provide on Linux.  In addition, I thought the views expressed towards Java, however fleeting, went contrary to the normally careful and balanced considerations various Linux technologies receive on Linux Basement.  For this reason, I felt it important to voice my own opinion.  Nevertheless, I did so poorly and in an offending tone.  In hindsight, I probably read more into the comments than was intended due to my own personal biases.  I will more carefully consider the construction of my criticism in the future.  Thank you for your own opinions and views. I value them a great deal.Sincerely,Brian

No worries Brian. I'll try to be more considerate in the future myself.  I do want to be fair on the podcast. Hopefully I will get a java developer to come on soon.

Here is a cool site I found towards those who have an intereste in Java. In the forums, they even help people out who are studying Java in college.

http://java.dzone.com/

Take care,

Chad